A few weeks ago, I wrote about our experience with linseed oil paint. I’ve used it more since, and must update the suggestion to thin it with mineral spirits (low odor or otherwise). I’ve experienced some shiny vs. not-shiny spots on several projects that I think are a result of the thinning…because I’ve not experienced the same when I’ve used the paint as it comes (no matter the brand), without thinning it.
Sometimes we’re able to rub out the sheen differential with a topcoat of soft wax of purified linseed oil. Sometimes, we cannot. I want reliable, repeatable results.
But, I do like the paint to be a little thinner than it comes – so I’m experimenting with some other options. I will, of course, report back. In the meantime, consider the “use mineral spirits” statement retracted.
– Fitz
p.s. I’m not too worried about “fixing” the paint on the chair – that’s easy: apply another coat of paint, this time, without thinning it. After removing any wax residue (and for that…er…use mineral spirits).
i use the products of leinoelpro (germany) an am quite happy with them. i don’t know if they are available in the usa …
https://leinoelpro.de/
there is some info on their homepage, too, but of course in german …
best regards
alfons
From Brouns’ book, turpentine . Used it successfully .
I put my hands up to being an internet comment jockey, but why wouldn’t you thin linseed oil paint with linseed oil?
The term “linseed oil” means different things to different sellers. I do not claim to be an expert.
Raw linseed oil takes a long time to dry, which is why there are so many different treatments for/to it. Your suggestion could have merit, or be complete folly depending on what flavor linseed oil and possibly the phase of the moon during application. For the overly literal, the moon thing is commentary on the fickle nature of linseed oil offerings. One thing is almost always true in that more linseed oil means longer drying time. Repeated disclaimer, I avoid linseed oil due to long dry time and widely varying commercial offerings. Any contradictory opinions are probably more informed than me.
I’m quite happy to experiment vicariously through the LAP folks. 🙂
You’re correct, Nick. This type of paint is usually used on exteriors, and I recommend thinning with linseed oil for primer coats in that setting. The goal is to protect the wood from the elements and adding oil as the thinner in the fist coat does just that. Using this paint in a one coat system like Megan is trying here can get tricky since the wood will take up the oil in varying amounts. Depending on the species, temperature, inconsistencies of mil thickness of coat, and overall dry time, the flashing after just one coat can be diminished or amplified with more oil. I normally don’t worry about the flashing after one coat because this paint is usually used in a 3 coat system. It’s a bugger when you want only one coat or a low lustre. On my site I don’t mention thinning with anything other than oil because of turpentine sourcing problems in the US as well as the inconsistencies in the “paint thinner” market here. Manufacturers are also required by law to include the VOC content of their paint based on the maximum thinning recommendation so that’s a consideration as well. All of that said, I’d like to find a reliable way to make this paint work in a single-coat system for interior furniture like Megans without the need for thinning which can lead to potential flashing issues. I’m working on this now with fingers crossed.
In my state of Connecticut they have changed the formula for mineral spirits because of the recent VOC laws. I was told by a local paint dealer that the new formula didn’t work as well and there were problems with it. I bought a lifetime supply of the old formula for that reason.
I would check the can to see if it’s the new formula, look for something about it being “improved” and environmentally friendly.
are there any states that sell the old Mineral Spirits Formulation?
Good morning,
I trained originally as an artist/painter before taking up wood working recently.
The problem is mineral spirits (white spirit as it is known in UK) damages the bonds within the linseed oil- often with harsher varieties of cheaper white spirit you will often get unsightly silver streaks in the paint film.
A more sympathetic thinner is artists gum turpentine ( not industrial turpentine as this is very damaging to the paint film as it has had the gum removed) although it is quite strong and heady. I prefer a orange di lemonie solvent (in the UK there is a supplier called Jenniechem which provide a very reasonably priced pure orange solvent)
Or another modern alternative solvent from the aromatherapy world is Augeo Clean, a solvent made from glycerine- which is a very good environmentally sound solvent for linseed oil.
All the best
Darren
Would the Citrus Solvent from Real Milk Paint work well?
Yes, but it’s about twice what I paid for a quart of generic 100% D-limonene.
I switched from getting “Mineral Spirits” from the local ‘big box’ store, and bought it from a local chemical supply company instead. (being Ontario Canada, this was also necessary to get higher quality alcohol without the irritating dilutants for mixing shellac)
This made an immediate difference in the quality of my finishing as I’m now getting something chemically consistent, batch after batch.
Knowing Chris and Megan and crew, I can’t imagine that they used “random big box store” mineral spirits, but it is worth considering.
The ‘random big box store’ chemicals are certainly of uncertain quality and consistency, simply based on the supply chain involved.
Also: if you do the requisite paperwork with a local chemical supplier you can almost always (admittedly: depends somewhat on jurisdiction. I needed to sign off on being qualified as a cabinetmaker.) get stronger materials than are sold to ‘civilians’ by the jug in the paint aisle at the local big-box store. Did require me to buying 20 litres at a time instead of 4 litres at a time.
Hey all, I know you all have probably vetted every option here, but for what it’s worth, the last 2 million dollar build I was on called for pine tar as the finish on their siding. Our company shop manager had a big thing for natural products and pushed the Viking linseed oil/tar combo pretty hard for this.
So the sample was accepted by the client (and everything I owned turned black and smelt like barbecue fish guts for the next 6 months).
all good except the job’s painting contractor applying the product soon realized it was nearly impossible to get consistent results, so it was thinned with turpentine, further adding to the epic menagerie of nasal nastiness, but resulting an even spread with quite consistent results.
Seconding the turps for this.
I’m glad you posted this. I’ve only used it for 2 jobs, but the second job I used it for had an huge failure of the shiny/not shiny. I attributed it to either not mixing the paint enough or the mineral spirits.
I use linseed oil paint all the time from Allback. It is too thick for me as purchased so I thin it with linseed oil purchased from the same supplier and have had good results.
In order to avoid bright spots you should try this:
First coat of paint: Linseed oil paint + 50 % raw or boiled linseed oil (boiled oil dries faster)
Second coat: Linseed oil paint mixed with max. 5 % pine turpentine
https://rakennusapteekki.com/en/product/tarpatti-traditional-wood-tarpatti-1-l
Third coat: Linseed oil paint only
Regards from Finland!
K-E H
Oh – I do know that would do it…but we’re looking for a single-coat solution (which simply may not be an option – but we’ll keep trying)!
Has anybody experimented with making their own paint using eggs, linseed oil, and pigments? Watched a spoon carver lady from Sweden and she said that was the traditional paint from there. Seems like a cool idea.
My long gone uncle I worked with in while I was in school was an old school painter. He would mix his own colors and could match anything. He taught me early on that mineral spirits is a poor thinner. You want Gum Turpentine! Note: it take quite a bit less to thin than using mineral spirits but you won’t have “flash” spots on your finish (shiny spots)
Lots of good advice in the comments. I too vote for (real) gum turpentine. Check the label carefully.
But what about the blotches on the legs of that stool in your pictures, Megan???
You mean the blotching of cherry under any clear finish? That will disappear over time? Not worried about that.
Best book on the subject : Brouns . Imho.
Rub with boiled linseed oil, then wipe the excess off. Repeat if needed. Other option is to add another paint layer or two. Good linseed oil paint doesn’t need anything else than BLO and pigments.
Megan I’m curious about why you and Chris are still hunting around for a better linseed oil. What is it about the Allbacks that youve found wanting? Or is it some other consideration?
Because we like to learn as much as we can! (And the Allbäck has the same issue when thinned with the mineral spirits, FWIW)
Have you tried turpentine as opposed to mineral spirits? May make a difference.
I have some old-school turps on order (not the big box stuff), and will as soon as we get it.
I have thinned oil, acrylic, and latex paints with acetone and applied them with a brush and a Preval sprayer. It mixes readily with everything I’ve tried and I have not had a failure (yet). Give it a try, it’s cheap and not restricted nearly as much as most solvents.
They are low on stock at the moment, but Diamond G Forest Products produces turpentine in Georgia.
Yep – I have it on order
For whatever it is worth, I have been using Allback linseed paint on a few recent projects and have not had the difference in sheen problem you describe when thinning the paint with Allback linseed oil (but I’ve had exactly the problem you describe when I tried mineral spirits). Haven’t tested enough to be confident in its reliability/repeatability, but on several windows and projects it has worked well for me to think with Allback linseed oil.
Try VM&P Naphtha thinner, I have had good results with this on varnishing projects.
“Sometimes referred to as “white gas” if you can find it, VM&P (varnish makers and painters) naphtha is likely your best friend when thinning oil-based finishes.” FWW
Cheers
Oh boy, I miss Naphtha. It was such a great go to solvent, but being in CA, I haven’t had my hands on it in years. Also, i’ve never cut linseed oil paint with it so I don’t know how it would affect the finish.
I know nothing about linseed oil paint. But would rubbing out the finish even out the sheen, as it would a film finish?
I’ve successfully dulled LOP by rubbing out the finish with plenty(plenty!) of water and scotch-brite pads or wet/dry sandpaper. It works best on a fully cured film. It can be done on a fresh (days old) coat but more care should be taken. I think in this situation, the risk of burn through of the single coat would be great, especially since there are so many uneven surfaces. The nooks and crannies of a chair would be really difficult. 99% rubbing alcohol or denatured applied with a rag to the shiny spots can cut the sheen, but Megan tried it here and it only helped a little. Botton line: LOP, especially fresh LOP, doesn’t sand well. It’s a different beast.
Thanks so much.
Most of my 25 years of finishing experience involves lacquer and if we want dead fat we just add flattening paste but I recall a painter telling me that talc is a matte/flattening agent when mixed with oil based paints. I don’t have any recipes but it’s worth a try on a sample board.
…i don’t know what dead fat but pretty sure it’s not glossy…meant dead flat!
Talc certainly works, but like all the other matting agents, it works best if there’s a solvent involved. One way they work is by rising to the top of the wet film and as the solvent gasses off, they’re left protruding from the film where they scatter light. The issue with linseed oil paint is the lack of solvent. Pigment particle size is another way to control sheen but it only gets you part way there.
An old auto painters trick used in lowering viscosity for application when oil based enamel was the paint most often used was to heat undiluted paint on a warming plate to the low 100’s range (under 120). It then can be applied undiluted and lays out evenly and smoothly. I bet this would work in your application.
Try the old timers secret weapon, turpentine. Anything that smells that bad must be good. 😀
Thank you for your efforts.
Fitz, my full time job of twenty years is Professor of Painting and Drawing at my local university. In traditional oil painting, there is no substitute for Pure Gum Spirits of Turpentine. It behaves the best when mixed with linseed oil paint (fine art paints are all just pigment and linseed oil). In my personal practice, I never ever use Turpenoid (especially not the “natural,” kind…it’s only suitable for brush cleaning, even per the manufacturer), Odorless Mineral Spirits, or plain mineral spirits. All of these are unpredictable in almost every way when producing fine paintings. It seems to me that the only difference between the linseed oil-based paint you guys are using and the high pigment artist oils that we use is that there is way more linseed oil in yours.
Having said that, I strongly recommend that you try Gamblin’s “Gamsol.” It is WAAAAY less toxic than the volatile organic compound that is Turpentine, has almost zero smell, and is formulated to behave in linseed oil based paint just like Turp. It’s’ so good that I’ve even replaced Turp with it in my painting practice. It’s so safe that our entire painting program has mandated that we only allow Gamsol in our classrooms and graduate studios. You can pick up a small bottle of it online from Amazon, and some of the “big box art stores” sell Gamblin products. I’d urge you to do a test with it soon to see how it behaves for you. I’ve also replaced turp with Gamsol in my tung oil “first coat” mixtures, and it works beautifully and has no smell (though I nostalgically, romantically cherish the smell of good turp, brain cell murdering as it is.)
I have some old-fashioned turps on order – but I’ll try the Gamsol, too. Thanks.
That blue-top stool is beautiful. I can imagine it being some child’s favorite. Saved for inspiration, following for education.
Please,please keep us posted on alternatives! I really hate using these paints” full strength”. Easier to work with, flow better and lay down better with regard to brush strokes when dilluted. Thanks for all you do and the info that results.