Whenever I teach a chair class, I build a chair along with the students. I don’t always sell my classroom-built chairs because I always push myself to try something different on the chair – something I’d be afraid to do to a chair that I am counting on to put food on the table.
During last week’s chair class I crossed over a threshold I have been approaching for a few years: changing the geometry of the comb of a comb-back to the point where it sits more like a Gibson chair.
This is the most comfortable comb-back I’ve made to date. I don’t like to name my furniture, but for now I’m calling this a “short-back chair.”
What’s different about this chair compared to my previous designs in “The Stick Chair Book” (free for download forever)? Quite a lot.
I don’t have “plans” for this chair. That’s not how I design chairs. It would take me longer to draw plans for this chair than to build another chair. But I am happy to share the essential geometry so you can graft it onto one of your designs. (This is my Southern way of saying all gentle-like: No, I’m not going to create plans. All you need is in the free book and the information below.)
Seat Height
I have been gradually lowering the seat height of my chairs, as measured from the pommel to the floor. This chair is 15-1/2”. You might think that’s low. I don’t. I think tables are too high. When one of the students this week asked how low chair seats could go, I replied: “Many Morris chair seats are 12” off the floor.”
Back & Seat Lean
The back of this chair leans back 16.2° from the seat. The seat tilts 4.15° back. That’s a total lean of 20.25°. No, it doesn’t feel like a dentist’s chair. If you are using the chair plans in “The Stick Chair Book,” you achieve this 16.2° angle by positioning the front edge of the arm 1-1/4” behind the back edge of the seat. The seat is tilted back “two fingers.”
The Comb
My big comb-back chairs have the comb about 15” above the arm. That makes for a big and impressive chair, but you have to arrange the sticks so the sitter’s shoulders don’t feel like they are being poked by a bunch of sticks.
In this chair, the bottom of the comb is 8-3/4” above the arm’s shoe. This means the comb supports the shoulders – the sticks are taken out of the comfort equation, which means the comb must be a comfortable curve. This one is 18” long and has a 20” internal radius. The top edge of the comb tilts back to add a little comfort.
What’s Next?
I’m going to move the comb down 3/4” next time. I have a hunch that will help even more. (I could be full of crap.)
This chair is currently in paint (“Twilight” in General Finishes acrylic). Megan is patching a bit of blow-out on the arm (the bit of white in the photo). This chair, while experimental, is good enough to sell. I’ll post it for sale on the blog in the next week or so. It is made of elm with ash sticks. The chair will be $1,500 (which will include shipping). We’ll sell it via a random drawing.
— Christopher Schwarz
You wrote that the finish is “Twilight in General Finishes acrylic.”
In looking on their website, it is not clear to me if you are using their Milk Paint.
Could someone please advise?
Thank you for the excellent presentation of this chair.
It is “General Finishes Milk Paint.” Which is an acrylic and zero milk. I just get tired of typing an obvious lie. Sorry it was confusing.
General finishes “milk paint” is an acrylic. They don’t make an actual milk paint. I really wish they’d stop calling it that.
I must say this chair just looks right. It seems to say “Sit in me. I promise you will be comfortable”. On the aesthetic side I think I prefer the height of this chair back to your earlier chairs it has a balance between the height above the seat and below (if that makes sense).
The chair does look comfortable with the lower comb. I agree with a previous comment about the balance above and below the seat. Thanks for continuing to push the envelope.
I’m curious about the process to “patch the blowout.” I don’t recall that from your books or blogs.
Megan is using Durham’s Water Putty. It’s not a chairmaking-specific repair. It’s just a good putty.
How do you guys mix up your Durham’s? I have a patch that I’m not super happy with since the paint wear and even texture at the patch is different. I have considered mixing the powder with paint next time I am using non-oil based paint.
I start with a tablespoon of powder and a few drops of water. It does not take much water to do the job. Add a drop. Mix. Repeat until it is the consistency of peanut butter. Then apply the putty; I usually use a pallete knife. Let it dry until it is white again. Then sand with #320
As a former house painter turned electrician, I’ve been using Durham’s for 40 years. Good product, I’ve even mixed it with caulk to fix cracks in some wood columns that I felt were alive and still moving to try to give it some elasticity, no idea if it worked. Thanks Chris, I retire in 2025 and I hope to take one of your classes. The only chairs I’ve built have the word Adirondak associated with them, I mostly just want to meet you and shake your hand I truly appreciate you and what you do …
I agree tables are too high. What height, or range of height, are you finding works with shorter chairs, say 15 1/2” to 16”?
More in the 28″ range.
Good input, that’s even lower than I thought. Thanks!
I guess it’s historic to paint these chairs. But, the pictures you’ve shown of non-painted (?pre-paint?) are beautiful wood grain due to the careful selection of pieces you’ve incorporated into your chairs. It just seems to me that to paint such a beautiful work product is a crying shame. But, keep up the good work.
how do personally feel sitting in the shorter chairs? I’m about your height and find 95% of chairs i sit in designed for someone shorter than me and very uncomfortable.
I love it. I think most chairs are designed for giants.
As I get older, with bum knees, I avoid sitting in anything low. I’m about the same size as Chris, 6’3″, 198lbs. I would not be comfortable getting out of a standalone 15-1/2″ chair. I’d just plain refuse one at anything approaching 12″, unless you offered to help me off of it. Unless the need is urgent I won’t use a toilet unless it’s ADA height.
I just measured my dining chairs — which are extremely crappy mass-produced chairs — but the seat height of 18 inches with a 30″ table top is good for me. The chair I use in my shop is 19-1/2, and I like it better. Even at that height my feet sit flat on the floor, and the seat edge doesn’t cut into the back of my thighs at all.
I realize I’m not typically dimensioned, but I think I’m far from unusual, and these days I’m mostly concerned with what’s comfortable.
I haven’t tried any of your chairs, of course. From a beauty standpoint I like the taller backs much more than the lower Gibson style. If I was buying on sight alone, I’d buy taller. But I would buy on beauty alone. I’d love to sit in a few and judge for myself which was most comfortable. That’s what is most important.
It would cool to see a visual comparison of the different comb heights and where they provide support. Sometimes the scale of chairs is hard to see without a person in them
You can see this chair, people and other chairs here.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2S5vJXunU3/
This is really a great post. I have been leaning in this direction. Thanks for the nudge.
This is a really nice evolution, Chris. How many inches did you shorten the long sticks?
The long sticks’ final length is 21″.
Very interesting, I really like this look. The way the chair pitches back is very pleasing to the eye and the color of the milk paint kind of gives it an elegant look. Great job!
The Gibson chair I just finished may be the most comfortable chair in the house. Thanks for those plans and the video, which is first rate.
I’ve been thinking that chairs and tables are too high for years. I’m glad to see other folks are willing to say that out loud, too.
Chris: “I think we should pay more attention to these various low style stick chairs. They are comfortable and beautiful!”
LAP fanboys: “Yay, we love stick chairs!”
Chris: “The Gibson Chair might be the most comfortable of all stick chairs!”
LAP fanboys: “Yay, we love stick chairs, but that comb is kinda ugly…”
Chris: “…”
LAP fanboy: “…I’m sure it’s comfortable, but still kinda ugly…”
Chris: Makes Chair. Meets comfort goals. Posts about chair.
LAP fanboys: “We love it, give us plans, take our money!!!”
Chris: “Did I not already write a 600+ page book with specific instructions on how to follow a key set of numbers to build these? And gave you the book for free? And here’s those key numbers for THIS chair.”
Chris: “I just like the chair.”
Note: If you don’t follow current financial pop culture, watch the movie Dumb Money for context. Offerman is in it.
I count myself amongst the fanboys, and am so so grateful! I’m in the middle of building two of the six stick comb backs, following more so the details from the Stick Chair Journal. I’m going to keep the first one pretty faithful to those plans, but think I’ll follow these numbers on the second chair.
How do the elderly take to the lower chairs? Is it more difficult to stand back up from the sitting position? I ask because the last thing I would want (for myself anyway) is to build a set of chairs that don’t suit me well in old age or in the event of an injury. Im sub 40 now but its something I think about. I’ll probably build a set of chairs for myself within the next 5 years so Ive been waiting/watching all your designs
By the time you are 75 we will have anti-gravity butt pads. Promise.
Chairs were universally lower in the past. And there were elderly people back then, and they weren’t significantly smaller. If you end up with mobility problems, then yes, low chairs will be more difficult to get out of.
When I was young, I was promised we’d have jetpack before now. I’m skeptical.
It’s not just the elderly. I never understood the point of the high handicapped toilets I encountered in public restrooms until I was in a car accident in 2009 and spent 3 months putting no weight whatsoever on my broken right ankle.
Turned out that if your thigh is horizontal or your tush is slightly higher than your knee
getting up is “easy”, once your tush is more than an inch or two lower it is amazingly more work. I’m now at the point where it’s hard to say if issues are accident remnants or age, but chairs or sofas where the calf isn’t vertical with tush as above are a lot harder to get out of.
I have yet to see a Morris or Adirondack chair that looks believeable for me. I can barely manage a 13″ high folding stool camping, but already know (experimentally) my sweet spot is 16-18″. Check the recommended height Chris uses for a sawbench and assume +/- an inch or so if you want to be certain it will work in your older age.
I’m not a physical therapist and don’t play one on TV but do offer my experience.
Love the lower look, it is an inviting chair to just “set here for a spell”.
Do you laminate the comb, or cut it from solid material?
I both steam bend and cut combs from solid. This one is cut from solid elm
Cutting is both quicker and there’s no hassle with spring back.. so you must steam in certain circumstances, right?
Some arms and combs aren’t possible to be cut from solid, especially thin and narrow ones. Beefy parts with shallow curves are easily cut from solid. But a thin and narrow comb needs (1-3/8″ square in cross section) needs to be steam bent or laminated.
Have you ever made a slightly thicker comb first, drilled and fit the mortises for the sticks, and then finished thinning the comb? I was thinking about avoiding blowing through a very thin comb while drilling.
I do that almost every time I design a new comb. I trace around my patter with the pencil in the hole of a washer to make it 1/8″ bigger all around. Drill it. Then saw and shave it down until I get scared.
Excellent.
I am holding out for the Silver Back chair to go with the them of the Chairpanzee and the bevel monkey.
I am in the process of thinking about building my first stick chair. To my eye, most are pretty crude looking. They do not sing to me.
This chair does!
Maybe it is the black paint finish, the overall geometry, the high back, the low seat, or maybe it just looks right to my eyes.
So there you go, the decision of what chair to build is now done.
This chair will be my first attempt on this genre of chairs……
Thanks fo rbeing so brave and especially for sharing the build differences.
How far off the lean back would it take to affect the comfort? For example, is 2° a lot? Or, it’s not a lot if the seat follows with it? Obviously, opinions will differ. I’m just trying to get a feel for it.
I think that I can easily feel a 5° difference. The numbers for this chair are the results. I was shooting for 5° seat tilt and 15° back tilt.
A while back you looked at ratios in 2 to 3 etc. How does this one look in those terms? Does shortening the legs match the shorter sticks?
It makes a chair that has nearly equal proportions between the comb and arm, the arm and seat, and the seat and stretchers.
It’s not what I was after, but it happened. And it looks good.
It has an appealing understated (subtle?) look to it compared to the other types. Like it.
Dear LAP,
I’m fairly new to all this and wondered if I can send questions Fitz at the mail provided for this coming Saturday’s Open Wire or is there one upcoming? Also, how do I find them for instance this past Saturday the 20th? Also, is there a search for your blog in the blog somewhere? Sorry for the questions and no, I don’t want these ignorant questions to be how I’m remembered.
Many Thanks for all the great work you do in teaching us out here! I made a Settle rocker (from your book) scaled way down of course for one of my grand daughters and making the other grand daughter one after making my wife the drop leaf breakfast table to be used in her sewing studio for a layout table. YOU and Fitz got me making instead of preparing tools and puttering (I also purchased Get Sharp) and and using your sharpening methods other than with King stones which is what I have now. One of your tool boxes after as I am hating the dust on tools even though I only have my Fathers old Powermatic band saw which is awesome.
I’m making another pair of American welsh stick chairs (4 stick back) and the cold delayed me. What are your thoughts on the adaptations for that form/setup? I feel the comb radius/size might not work too well when it’s placed that low (with it just being 4 sticks), but wanted your opinion.
Chris is traveling, so he might not see your question. Always best to ask questions in the Saturday Open Wire – we’ll almost certainly see it and answer there! (But wait until the Feb 3 Open Wire for Chris)
Thanks Fitz, I forgot about Williamsburg. I’ll wait to post my questions to you on the 1st or 2nd of February. Have a great week!
I haven’t made a four-stick chair with such a low comb. If I were going to do it, I’d mock it up with some dowels fro the back sticks and see what it feels like. My first suspicion (which might be wrong) it that the comb’s curve is too tight to feel good against the back.