During the summer my steam box took its last hot breath. The interior bits had rotted away, as had the door and its hinges. I pitched the thing, planning to build a replacement.
Then I thought: Am I really happy with the Earlex wallpaper steamer that powers it? It’s fine for small chair parts, but I probably need an additional steamer to keep the temperature constant when dealing with thick armbows.
I did some math in my head and decided to try something different.
I bought a stock tank – a steel watering trough for farm animals – that measures 1’ x 2’ x 6’. Then I put it on my gas stove in the kitchen to heat the water.
Boiling your bits is just as effective as steaming them. On Monday I bent my first two arms (1” x 1-3/8” x 51” in red oak) using the new setup. The tank is bigger than I really need, but I might teach a chair class in the future where we bend the arms.
How did it work? Fine, as expected. The only pain-in-the-butt part was removing the water from the stock tank. This one doesn’t have a drain (yet), so I had to scoop out the water into the sink.
I also had a constant worry that the cats were going to jump in the hot tank, and I’d find three floating carcasses in there. (Actually, I was only worried about Wally. He’s both curious and dumb.)
So for the next batch of arms, I’m probably going to buy a propane camp stove ($150) and do the operation outside.
Bonus: For our next party, I’ll have a great place to chill the beer in the stock tank. And I’ll have additional cooking facilities for making chili (with black beans, not Wally-flavored) as I smoke some ribs.
— Christopher Schwarz
Brilliant.
Actually getting the water out is quite easy, I used to have a big fish tank and used a hose and a bucket and did it like you would get gas out of the tank, it’s very efficient and fast. O course you might get a mouth full of elm/oak/whatever wood soup from time to time but I have the felling that it tastes better than fish tank water :)))
Aside from waste waters management the idea of boiling sounds really good to me as I want to experiment with wood bending but I don’t really want to invest in a steamer.
As a fellow fish tank owner I came to say the same thing… Siphon for the win!
Use a shaker siphon hose, super easy and you don’t have to suck on anything, unless you want to. You can get them at Lowe’s.
https://www.amazon.com/Wadoy-Siphon-Gasoline-Transfer-Priming/dp/B072LN1T1W/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=shaker+siphon&qid=1697072762&sr=8-3
The cabinets are beautiful. Did you build them?
Perhaps siphoning the water into a pair of buckets might work. One bucket filling while the other is being dumped. Would be a bit faster than scooping?
You might try one of the propane burners that people use to deep fry turkeys or fry fish. They are about $50 and hook up to 20 lb propane cylinders. The big aluminum pot for the turkey may be more convenient and large enough for smaller steam jobs too.
I’ve never had my own steam box, and I bend all my wood in boiling water. I highly recommend the water trays made for this that the Home Shop sells. These are the folks that sell Shaker Box tacks and supplies. They list three sizes of trays in their catalog, from 32 to 48 inches long, but their people that make them will make one any size you want. In addition to 37 and 48 inch trays, in copper, I have 6 and 8 foot trays in galvanized.
Be sure to get the hinged lid, not the lift-off type. Every time you lift off the lid the condensate will get scattered all over. With the hinged lid it mostly goes back into the tray, except a wee bit on both ends. I keep little loaf pans in those spots to catch drips.
The beauty of these trays compared to a giant trough is you need to use, and heat, much less water. And the lid keeps most of it from evaporating, and forming rain clouds in your shop. I use the water trays in the shop with 2 or three electric hotplates, depending on length. It keeps the stove and kitchen free.
Took a little searching but here is their website. Looks like you cannot order online, they have a pdf catalog and you must call them. https://www.shakerovalbox.com/
Here’s a link to an older Woodworkers Journal article on The Home Shop: https://www.woodworkersjournal.com/john-wilson-the-johnny-appleseed-of-shaker-box-making/
Was the arm bow green wood or dried? I had a bear of a time bending 1” by 1” by 36” RO using my Earlex driven steam box. Took 6 tries to get the 4 bows I needed.
syphon!!!
One thing ,make yourself a pair of saw horses to set the tank on,when you need to use it just slide a propane burner as John suggested and it heats up much faster .my set up is very similar to yours except I don not have a burner as big as yours one thing in the summer I set it on the deck and the dog has his on swimming pool loves laying in it
Please consider a different type of tank for this process. Heating galvanized metal releases zinc fumes which are quite toxic.
+1 to this. Kinda dangerous Chris.
Because the water is present, I would think that the metal shouldn’t be getting hot enough to vaporize the zinc and cause metal fume fever, but if it was heated empty it would be concerning. He could grind off the galvanized coating on the bottom outside to prevent it also.
+1 to Brad’s comment.
i made a water transfer pump with a marine diaphragm pump and lithium battery mounted to either side of a piece of plywood. i use it to move water around at the ranch. it’s lightweight, compact, and works a treat. i avoid impeller pumps. for me they always find a way to fail. not so diaphragm pumps.
Please be careful with the stock tank. Heating galvanized metal can throw off toxic fumes.
Yes more specifically:
Galvanized metal is coated with a layer of zinc, which can be toxic when heated to high temperatures and inhaled. When heated, zinc fumes can be released, and these fumes can cause metal fume fever, which can include symptoms such as fever, chills, cough, chest tightness, and difficulty breathing. Additionally, inhaling zinc fumes can cause metal fume fever, which can include symptoms such as fever, chills, cough, chest tightness, and difficulty breathing. Therefore, it is generally recommended to avoid inhaling fumes from heating galvanized metal.
It’s not so much that Chris tried something new, it’s that because Chris tried it, many will follow blindly and do something stupid and get sick.
I see several comments about heating zinc. Am I wrong, or won’t the presence of water in the tub keep the zinc from getting over 212F/100C? In my high school science class we boiled water in a paper cup over a raging bunsen burner, and the paper didn’t burn… Now granted I don’t remember if the outside scorched; perhaps the outermost layer of zinc would be able to vaporize even if the remainder didn’t? Might be worth inspecting the bottom of the tub for damage because from my limited welding experience I know that zinc fumes=bad news.
He is applying fire directly to the bottom. The outside of the bottom will certainly produce zinc fumes. The inside I would have to ask a scientist but I wouldn’t drink the water myself.
Safe maximum heat tolerance before concern of a reaction is nearly 400F – with the large pot filled with water heated to under 200F – the metal will not reach dangerous levels for quite some time and continued increased heat.
I agree that because of the zinc heating this would not be recommended. If you remember John Wilson, the shaker box maker, would use copper troughs he had bent up to do the same thing. You could have a sheet of copper or aluminum easily bent into a custom sized trough for multiple arms then use a few hot plates down in the shop to simmer the water.
I second everyone talking about zinc fumes. It’s dangerous the way you’re doing it. The water keeps the temperature down but still there’s direct flame on the underside.
Your local sheet metal shop or SendCutSend.com will bend you up an aluminum box. Copper is quite a bit more expensive. Stainless is in the middle. All three will last forever.
The temperature got to about 180° (F), so the galvanized didn’t go airborne (no damage to the underside)
Before you go drilling for that tap. Have you seen any beer making videos where brewers move liquids using a two or 3 foot long section of clear vinyl hose? It’s pretty effective, and you don’t have to worry about pesky leaks. Of course, there is some leftover water and you would have to dump out of the tank. But pretty manageable. If you’ve made up your mind, that’s cool, just offering up an alternative suggestion that works amazingly well.
I think you’re talking about a siphon.
This is starting to remind me of the aussie that built a Jet Engine powered beer cooler to cool down his Guinness in the shop. Serious, google “jet engine powered beer cooler” and you will see what i mean.
Calling a ‘kiwi’ and ‘aussie’ is offensive to the ‘kiwis’, as is the reverse.
Irrespective of tank fumes- are you using the same recipe of 1 hour of boiling per inch of thickness?
Great idea. I’ve begun making banjos and have made a steam box but for my first banjo I used a galvanized rain gutter on a electric hot plate. Was able to get 3 or 4 pieces of soon to be bent banjo rim wood (3″x 1/4″ x 38″ maple) in it and it worked well. A little cumbersome trying not to spill the water when emptying the gutter, but not too hard. After using a steam box since, it seems like the boiled wood stayed flexible a little longer then the steamed.
I found a stainless steel spigot to mount on a large stockpot years ago. That would fix your drain needs and you can find them with a 3/4” threads to route with a garden hose.
I also think the suggestion for a propane type low burner or two burner setup is a great idea.
that trough will hold a lot of chili! more than enough for a long winded party!
I had to laugh out loud on this one. Seeing the trough on the stove was brilliant. But what did the missus say? Hmmm… Or maybe she’s used to such shenanigans. LOL
I’m thinking that my glass induction cooktop would work as the trough is steel. You can actually watch a pot boil on that sucker. It’s super fast. Hmmm… I know what my mate would say, “Scratch it and you’re dead, mister!”
Nice kitchen.
Yeah, I’d go with stainless steel instead of the galvanized. Don’t want the zinc sweats. Not sure what that might do to pets in an indoor space …
Had to jump in and say that real chili doesn’t have beans. (was that unkind?)
Be honest: You just wanted to show off your beautiful kitchen.
As you should! Lovely.
I will try the boiling method: thanks so much for the information.
So much zinc concern. Chris is not welding the tub. The temperatures aren’t going to get high enough to produce zinc fumes in any quantity. Look at that beautiful large exhaust hood. (I wish ours was that big with how much cooking I do.) He should be running that anyway for the emissions from the gas stove and that would take care of any concerns in my book.
The last time one of my ill-fated projects made its way into our kitchen, I was running for my life from my chisel wielding wife. Was Lucy out of town or used to your shenanigans??
dale
Hmmm. I still like my steambox much better than this. Ditch the earlex steam generator for one of these: https://jiffysteamer.com/jiffy-pro-line-hat-steamer – much easier to refill, and generates steam for 1.5 hours on a single fill. I use 6″ PVC pipe wrapped in a moving blanket wrapped in plywood and get a constant 212 degrees at the exit once it has all come up to temp. Just seems easier when all is said and done then having a giant tub of boiling water?
Might consider using an electric heating element (or two) used for brewing beer and would submerge into the water to boil it. This would also reduce the safety issue of flames on galvanized metal and allow you to do it in your shop.
I would recommend getting turkey fryer/crab boiler burner – get hotter faster and bigger burner surface area
Sixty odd years ago, in the days before Pampers were invented, my mother used to sterilize the baby’s nappies (diapers) in a galvanized bucket, I don’t recall anyone suffering from fumes.
A few quick searches on the net suggest it is not a problem unless the vessel is allowed to boil dry AND the heat source is considerably hotter than a domestic stove.
Just my opinion, however a little research may well save worry and expense.
Chris’ wife is a saint on earth, clearly. I’m sure coming home to a stock tank in the kitchen is a pretty mild occurrence.
Just from memory on the blog Chris: attempted rappelling down an unknown hole in an old building, trekked into a live volcano, built his own coffin in the driveway, and used a workbench as sunroom furniture for years.
And who knows what else. Also, clearly, it is working for him and we get to reap the benefits. 🙂
Yeah, the hot galvanized problem occurred to me too, but also the calamity of spilling that giant tub of water, especially if it’s at or near a boil, all over your kitchen and possibly yourself.
Four quarts doesn’t really seem like a lot of liquid until you spill a gallon of paint on your driveway; then it seems like A LOT of liquid. I’d hate to experience a stock tank full of boiling water tipping over onto my kitchen floor (and legs?) and getting into the subfloor and framing and the drywall in the ceiling downstairs. (Maybe this has something to do with the fact that I’m in San Francisco and earthquakes are always in the back of my mind?)
Anyway, accidents do happen, and this could be a really bad one.
(But then I imagine that Chris only had a couple of inches of water in the thing and it wasn’t THAT unwieldy?)
I think a trip to a local sheet metal shop (Anarchy!™ ) might be in order to have them brake a handy stainless or copper vessel for future bending projects. If they can make gutters they can make boiling troughs.
Yes. 2″ of water was all it took. The temperature got to about 180° (F), so the galvanized didn’t go airborne (no damage to the underside).
Could you kell me more about your strap for bending support? I have had so many wood failures (like 70-80%) with the crest rails in a roast pan, but I’ve never tried a support strap as they seem so size-specific and I don’t use the same size every time.
It’s from Lee Valley.
I actually met Wally a few weeks back (and Fritz as well). She was more than willing to he me out with a few books and take my money. You were not around to sign your stick chair book. But I’m reading it with pleasure! I just finished your workbench book on line, but I now need to buy it!
I’ve been working on wooden boats for twenty years and have built a couple of traditional steam boxes in that time. Now I use a method introduced to me by Louis Sauzedde on his Tips From a A Shipwright
series which uses a tubular plastic bag and bends the wood in place while its still steaming.
I use a 4’ piece of gutter on a Coleman stove. Works great and way cheaper.
In boat building school (admittedly, this was twenty years ago) I remember learning about the differences between steamed and boiled wood. To my recollection, boiling did more damage to the wood lignin resulting in a more brittle work piece once the process has been completed. This could result is a potential catastrophic failure. My instructors recommended not boiling wood for use in boats. I would guess that any additional weakness might not be noticeable in chair parts, and any failures would tend to be less deadly-a trip to the floor vs. a trip to Davy Jones’ Locker.
Both boiling and steaming get the wood to the exact same temperature. And people boiled boat parts for centuries to bend them.
I cannot for the life of me think how water (which is everywhere in a tree — more than its weight) would hurt the lignin.
https://www.chromalox.com/en/catalog/industrial-heaters-and-systems/circulation-and-immersion-heaters
I’ve seen these used in laboratory settings to heat water baths to nearly boiling for testing. They have “over the side” models for tanks that are similar to the stock tank
How long did you have to boil the wood? Is there anything like a formula for minutes per inch of thickness?
I boiled it for a couple hours to make sure the heat had made it through the entire stick.
People have rules for this stuff. Here’s what I know: When wood reaches a certain temperature throughout its mass, it becomes pliable. When it drops below that temperature, it keeps its shape. Whether I keep the wood at temperature for one hour or four doesn’t seem to matter much. Heat is what makes the wood bendable. The moisture is just an effective carrier for the heat.
This comment has me wondering if a sous vide circulator is a good way to go, possibly even including vaccum sealing the wood so you don’t have to even bother drying it. Plus, it means you don’t need to worry about an external heat source (let alone zinc fumes ;)).
I had a broken sous vide that never shut off. It definitely got the water up to boiling temp. I don’t know if you can set them that high on purpose. I’m sure it would work, just might take a long time.
“The moisture is just an effective carrier for the heat.” This is why putting a chair slat into a microwave for 30 seconds makes the slat pliable and bendable. The microwaves cause the H2O molecules in the wood to get hot in a hurry. The hot H2O molecules cause the lignin to get hot. The slat becomes bendable.
I wish I still had my Mom’s first microwave. It was huge and could’ve taken some chair slats
Great idea. I wasn’t sure if boiling was worse. Certainly easier. And I already have the turkey fryer
You let your cat put its’ anus on the counter where you keep your dishes & eating utensils?
A garden hose makes a great siphon to drain the tank. It may reach out the back door….
(:>))) john
You could look to go electric and put the heating element in direct contact with the water which is more energy efficient and avoids any concerns with zinc. While the water only got to 180F, the stock tank that is getting in direct contact with a flame did get hotter – just a fact – it is debatable if it released zinc compounds. Homebrewers use heat sticks, basically a hot water heating coil, that can be clamped to the side of the brew kettle, or in your case, the stock tank. Here is an example for the same cost as the camp stove you mentioned.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm.
One heat stick is likely going to be slower than the camp stove based on BTUs. Just providing a suggestion that has plusses and minuses.
Also, racking siphons are handy:
https://www.amazon.com/Siphon-Racking-Bucket-Bottle-Plastic/dp/B09LLVMP45/ref=sr_1_16?crid=1PJ0IK5S31ET0&keywords=brewing+siphon&qid=1697207983&sprefix=brewing+sipho%2Caps%2C222&sr=8-16
If I used my wife’s stove for anything related to woodworking, she’d punch me in the face. 🤣