When designing a French workbench (or any other style, really), one of the most common hang-ups for new woodworkers is determining how much the benchtop should overhang the base at the ends of the bench.
When I design a workbench that doesn’t have an end vise, I usually use an overhang of 12” to 15”, and I make the overhang equal at both ends of the bench. Simple. And it looks good.
When you add an end vise into the equation, some bench designers become a bit uncertain. Is that cantilever too much? And when you are building a smaller workbench – say 6’ long – then real worry begins to set in. Will the bench be stable?
Here’s how I go about proportioning things.
With An End Vise on a Big Bench
If your bench is 8’ or longer things are pretty simple when adding an end vise. Determine how much overhang you need to accommodate the end vise, usually somewhere between 13” and 20”. Use the same overhang on both ends of the bench and you are pretty much done.
Because of the thick top of the French bench, the cantilever isn’t a problem. A 4”- to 6”-thick top is plenty thick enough to resist gravity and the weight of the vise.
If, however, you are making a short bench, things get complicated.
With An End Vise on a Short Bench
Here’s a typical problem: You want to put a Benchcrafted tail vise on a 6’-long bench. You need about 19” overhang on one end. If you made the overhangs symmetrical – 19” at both ends – then your workbench’s base is only 34” long. That’s ridiculous and unstable.
What do you do?
One solution is to use a small overhang on the end opposite the end vise. This is the solution used by the modern European-style workbench with its massive tail vise. This solution works just fine, though the bench loses its symmetry. But hey, it’s a bench, not fine furniture.
The other downside is that the bench – like European workbenches – becomes less stable. If you or your fat friend plops down on the cantilever, then you might get an unexpected thrill ride. I have seen this happen dozens of times, especially at Woodworking in America when people are setting up benches in the Marketplace.
Or Use No End Vise
If you are willing to eschew an end vise, your bench will be less expensive and easier to design. Plus, you can easily use A.-J. Roubo’s dimensions and proportions to draw a bench that is – to my eye – beautiful.
At the top of this blog entry is a detail from Plate 11 from “l’Art du menuisier” on which I have overlaid the known dimensions from Roubo’s text. I do not think that everything in his drawing is perfectly to scale. However, I do think that Roubo is showing a 9’-long bench, which he says is the standard size. If the bench is indeed 9’ long, then the planing stop, the legs and the stretchers are all correctly scaled and match his text. (The mallet is a different matter).
If you want to follow Roubo’s drawing, then make the overhang 12” or a little longer.
One side note: What if you are making a 12’-long bench? Do you need a third set of legs in the middle? I think you can avoid this complication by making the top thicker – 6” or a bit more – and by using an 18” to 24” overhang on the ends.
— Christopher Schwarz
Another option: Leave the right rear leg in its normal place, but kick the right front leg over to make extra room for the tail vise.
You’ll end up connecting the two with an angled stretcher, but that’s really not difficult.
My fat friend keeps plopping down on my cantilever. Psychiatrist says it has to do with my mother; suggests I add a third vise and buy a Ferrari.
What about jacked/angled legs on short benches? I don’t recall seeing those on Roubo style but it would add stability.
I am not a fan of dogleg bench bases because they *usually* interfere with some planing operations, such as sleeving a carcase or drawer over the overhang to level its joints. But I have seen these benches in person and they are better than a sharp stick in the eye.
Oh my gosh! How very timely! I am in the process this week of removing the (sagging) tail vise from my Klaus style workbench and installing the Benchcrafted one. I did notice it is growing a bit in length doing this (21.5” over the leg) and unless I keep it under control, it will be a “no sit” zone instead of a “no pound” zone. But this is a complete bench makeover. It’s not too late to address the leg situation since I plan to lop off a few inches from them anyway. It just means that I need longer stretchers. My bench is also on the short side at 6’ and too high for me at 34.5” This post may have saved me a *lot* of grief! It is currently in pieces and I had planned to purchase some Maple for the BC install tomorrow. Looks like that I should get enough wood to increase the length of my stretchers. If you are interested, I can send before and after pictures?
Thanks eh! Jim Leslie Calgary, Canada >
Hey Jim,
Check out this possible solution for installing the BC tail vise on a small bench:
http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/2013/12/xx-small-split-top-roubo.html
But won’t an overhang make it tip over?
j/k
The endvise does not *require* and overhang. Larry Williams has built a couple of Continental- style benches in which the endvise operates over the top of the leg.
http://www.planemaker.com/photos/old-bench.jpg
http://www.planemaker.com/photos/bench2.jpg
Of course, not much help for a French bench as it applies to the Continental leg design. However, I do think it is a nice option not only to minimize overhang, but to eliminate end vise sag.
Jeff
My current cheapy bench has an end vise which I rarely use, I use a bench stop mostly nowadays ala Wearing in my face vice. When I build my Nicholson, I might go totally viceless or possibly install my metal leg vise.
Here’s how I designed the bench that I’m building:
I took the total length of the bench top, in my case about 97″, and experimented with ratios. I decided that I like a 1:5 division.
I stepped out these divisions on the bench top.
My bench legs are 5 1/2″ square. I set the outside edges of the legs at marks 1 & 4.
This left me with overhangs that are approximately 19 3/8″.
This will easily accommodate the end vise and the 1 – 3 – 1 layout looks good.
Jonathan
if you make your french style bench with ends that are over-long, resulting in a bench that tips when a large friend sits upon the end or tips a tad when you use it, you can either add weight to the base (sandbags on a shelf) or easily trim them shorter. But if you build them overly short, and your end vice won’t fit, you may experience “workbench hangover”…
Time for a physics reality check: Any overhang on the left end of a bench does make it harder for someone sitting on the right end to tip the bench, but it’s because the overhang adds weight at a relatively long distance from the pivot point. The fact that it’s a cantilever doesn’t much matter (within reason). Assuming a 24″-deep bench with a 4″-thick top, made of 0.60 density wood (maple-ish), an additional overhang of 16″ weighs 33 lbs. You can achieve the same amount of anti-tippage with about 8-10 standard bricks placed at the left end of the under-the-bench shelf.
Not when the top isn’t fastened to the base, which is what happens at WIA.
Still, the advantage isn’t that large. Assuming the same conditions as before, and that a person sitting on the right overhang has a center of gravity 3″ in from the end, the 6′ bench will withstand 157 lbs. before tipping. Adding an additional 16″ of overhang on the left increases that to 216 lbs. That may be enough for certain unnamed skinny-ass persons, but I’m still doomed to end up on the floor.
Chris, Here in France where I live, I was just given a Roubo workbench. A friend of the family, who is in his 60s, said that it belonged to his grandfather. At any rate in one of your 2010 posts you were asking if the saw marks on the front of French benches were common. Well, I guess that they are because this bench is quite chewed up. The bench is 3 meters long and I was wondering if you could recommend a good book on how best to restore this bench. If possible I would like to make it useable without losing all of its charm.
Keith