John is explaining a problem installing non swaged hinges…
I recently completed a plane cabinet. Yes I actually completed something! This was a cabinet following Chris’s plans, that holds all my planes. I made it out of walnut which has become my favorite wood. Anyway, I needed to put quality hinges on the lid and since my past experience with no-mortis hinges caused me to turn the air blue, I went with a traditional hinge. I hoped to avoid one of my last problems, that of sheering off the head of the cheap screws that came with hinge leaving the shaft in places that were very important. When this happened last time the shaft of the screw could not be removed which resulted in having to move the hinge and of to keep symmetry, I had to move the hinge on the other side. So that is the end of those type hinges.
This time I bought high quality extruded brass hinges. The only hitch is that the hinge is not swaged. This means when the hinge leafs are closed there is a gap at the barrel end of the hinge (the area where the two leaves are connected by a pin). A swaged hinge is bent so that when both leaves are closed the touch from the front edge to the barrel. No gap. The issue with non swaged hinges, which by the way were used extensively in period shops, is that one of the mortises has to be formed like a ramp. The ramp will accept this gap at the barrel. The depth of the ramp in the mortis is the distance of the gap. I hope I am not sounding brilliant or confusing.The picture will show you both the hinge issue and the ramped mortis.
I placed the hinge on the work and used it to mark my lines for the mortis. I then set my new marking gauge (a Titemark Chris gave me for hunchbacking the Hotlzapffel bench to Maine and back), to the size of the gap. I mark this distance on the edge where the barrel of the hinge will be. This will be the deep end of the ramp. I got out my new Lie-Nielsen 1/2 chisel and carefully started to remove the waste. Having the depth of the mortis marked allows me to have a line to work to. The goal is to lay the hinge into the mortis and have it sit level with only one leaf above the mortis. In the picture you will see the ramped mortis and also see the hinge. This picture is of my second attempt. I blew out the very thin bit of wood on the long side of the hinge. Like the Dwarfs of Moria in LOTR, I dug too greedily and too deep which required a shim to be glued into the mortis to lift it to the correct height. Oh well one side looks great!
I haven’t stopped working on the Trestle table. I am almost there and will post a final pic when I get it done.
-John
I had not thought about ramping the mortises. I’ve always just made them level and deep so that the hinge leaves were parallel when closed. I’ve learned something new.
Patrick
P.S. How about a picture of the plane cabinet when done? I and I’m sure many others would like to see it.
As Patrick said, that’s a very non-standard way of mortising a standard barrel hinge. In fact, Brusso’s site has dimensions that give you the offset depth, so that you can decide whether to split the difference between each hinge mortise, or add the offset to only one mortise so that the other leaf sits flush. Of course, what you choose has to be applied consistently to each hinge on a door, otherwise the door will be racked.
In fact, the method you describe will be a real disaster on hinges that include a stop and are used on a lid (such as several of Brusso’s models), because it will result in the lid being less than 90 degrees to the box, and will thus not stay open.
I’m not sure because it never occurred to me to make a sloped mortise hinge, but it seems to me that you’ve made a problem where none existed. If you simply measure the offset and include it in your mortise depth calculations, you can use a router or a butt-mortise plane to easily and precisely achieve the depth (or if you’re a real philistine, use a powered router and a template).
Guys,
thanks for the comments. David I am going to discuss this with Chris. I am thinking that I learned this from him. Also you are correct with the Brusso 90 hinges for the boxes but as I recall they don’t have a space between the leaves at the barrell I think?
Patrick, will post pics soon!
Regards
John
This is a pickle, indeed. You’ve put the axis of rotation down below the surface the hinge is being mortised into. Either the lid is going to fit nice and snug, or the weight of the lid is going to lever against the back edge and pull the hinge out of the wood. (or break off the screws)
Re: "cheap" screws. Brass is soft. It’s not going to do a great job of digging into hard wood without deformation. Find a steel screw with a similar pitch and use that first, to cut the threads and make a path for the brass screw. It is a pickle, I’ve had brass screws that twisted, making for a variable thread pitch, and made them utterly unusable. The steel screw solution makes a world of difference. That, and using soap or wax on your brass screw threads.
Hi John,
Typically one would swage the hinges–press and or hammer–the leaves to become flat and parallel to each other. One can still purchase quality hinges like this, but it is easy enough to do with metal working vise and a hammer. To me the more important thing is what you did, which is to buy quality hinges to begin with.
James’ solution of chasing the hole with a steel screw is a good one that I have used. Anymore, I typicaly use appropriately-sized machine screws and drill/tap the holes. A machine screw has great holding power.
Jim that is an interesting thought. I was careful when I made the ramped mortis to ensure the lid didn’t lever out the hinges. I will take a photo of the hinge so we can see the barrel position relative to the surface.
If you didn’t ramp the mortis and instead split the difference between the two mortises wouldn’t there still be a gap at the barrel?
Thanks
John
John – The Brusso hinges for boxes that include an integral stop also have an offset to the leaves when closed (i.e., they’re non-swaged). Honestly, it never occurred to me in 20+ years of making furniture and boxes to either slope the hinge mortise or hammer the hinge leaves closed – it just seemed like part of the process to measure the distance between the outer edges of the leaves when closed, divide this in half, and set the marking gauge for this distance.
Perhaps Chris knows something I don’t – I’ve never had the opportunity to closely examine an antique that has this sort of hinge – most all of the antiques I’ve seen have externally mounted hinges (rat-tails and "H-L" hinges). I’m thinking the butt hinge was a later thing than the 18th century furniture I’m typically puzzling over.